How to reconnect with autonomous dream figures?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by philippe, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. philippe

    philippe Sojourner

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    I understand that dream characters "can be" created by our subconscious therefore having no subjective existence of their own . I also understand that vast portions of our dreams are populated with such characters and that it is not easy for the dreamer to know a "thought form" when he/she meets one. In "Lucid Dreaming", Robert Waggoner made a non conclusive (albeit honest and entertaining) attempt to sort autonomous dream figures from imaginary ones by asking them questions. His approach did not convince me. The characters involved were all answering the questions in a predictable way; in other words I felt that the Lucid Dreamer was potentially the author of both the questions and the answers no matter what. To me identifying autonomous subjects in dreams (or in the astral) is a challenging issue and I am yet to read a clear description of the process.

    In my own dreams, that is lucid dreams or dreams that I can remember in clear details when I wake up, I believe that I meet mostly autonomous characters. My criteria in sorting figures created by my subconscious from actual conscious autonomous individuals are based on (superficial) psychoanalysis. When I meet someone in dreams I try to focus on the actual personality, the thought processes, the values and the aspirations of the individual. In most cases it does not take long for me to "know" that it is "not me" and that I am dealing with a real person, be he/she friend or foe. When I say "real" I am aware of the fact that the character in question may be the product of someone else's thought creation.....we can't win! My system is not perfect but it is a start.

    I am aware also of the fact that the dream world (astral) is a place where the creative imagination is more powerful than in the third dimension. When there ...I see first what I want to see. That includes landscapes, situations and people familiar to me. Therefore I think autonomous dream figures are likely to be individual centers of awareness, just like us, who in the immensity of the astral plane vibrate at the same frequency and come from a comparable background. They see us and we see them and we come with our baggage .

    The question which has been haunting me for a while is this: when we meet dream figures that we like can we meet again? Personally I have never managed to reconnect with dream figures, they are all a one night stand. In this I exclude of course , friends, relatives dead or living, colleagues. neighbours, etc). Is any of you capable of saying: I enjoyed meeting this character last night, let us meet again!!!!
     
  2. subtle traveler

    subtle traveler Vanguard

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    hey Philippe ...

    It really depends a lot on ... intent and clarity.

    Dreams are non-physical experiences ... so when we sleep we are returning to the non-physical from where we originally came forth. Dreams are at one end of the continuum of conscious (the non-lucid or subconscious end) and highly lucid OBE's are at the other end of this continuum.

    Most of us have been raised on psycho-analysis, and unfortunately, it does not give us a completely useful framework for working with the non-physical. My experience is that it teaches us to limit the non-physical experience by "over interpreting it". This keeps us stuck in our biological brain (analyzing) ... when where we need to focus is upon the conscious mind (experiencing).

    I like Robert Waggoner's idea. Because it provides a simple way for us to become more consciousness and more aware in our dream environment, whether the person in the dream is real or not.

    Whether it is a non-lucid dream, lucid dream or an out of body experience ... we can ask characters within the experience "who are you?" or "what do you represent?". To be honest in most dreams I am not lucid enough to even consider these types of questions. That's why I think that gaining consciousness in our non-physical experiences is the most important objective.

    Regarding meeting a dream figure again, it can happen. I have done that (because it was a real person and not just a dream figure), but it did not come along in the timing or situation that I expected. This is why I initially stated that it depends on both our clarity and intent. The more lucid we are, the better we can experience what we are collecting data about.
     
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  3. Nameless

    Nameless Voyager

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    I liked what you had to say Phillip. You do seem to have thought about this quite a bit. To just answer your question yes, I have met 'characters' more than once and on ocassion in answer to my requesting so. However that doesn't always work. I have met people in LD only to then met them in person. Now that is always an eye-opener for me. And from time to time I will pass by someone and then have them turn up in LD literally years later out of the blue. When that happens I know I am going to run into them again in the physical.

    The crazy thing is that until I started reading these forums I never considered anyone in the NP as just a character. After reading about them I re-examined many of my experiences and can see where that thought comes from quite readily BUT like Subtle Traveler said above
    I got so much more from every experience 'before' I ever tried figuring out what was going on. BUT on the plus side whole new avenues of thought have been opened to me. Are those characters we meet in NP just characters playing a out a part we set for them? Hmm, I'm thinking this entire field is far more complex than we know.
     
  4. Shu-Man

    Shu-Man Navigator

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    I have experienced meeting the same people, places and experiences so much in my Dream scenarios, that I am convinced that these were "parallel" lives I was in.

    I never question the Dream once it's going. I know it's a Dream because I am reacting with my conscious mindset. I always keep the fact that it is a Dream waaaay at the back of my mind and I just experience and try to discern why I am in that place or experiencing what I am at the time. I used to become Lucid and then try to alter of change everything. But I noticed the scenario would usually end then and there. After a while I learned to observe, then react. This allowed me to get much deeper into the experience and to be able to find more patterns, etc.

    Once in awhile, before I went to sleep, I would attempt to make a conscious intent on someone I wished to see. But rarely was that successful. My nightly intent is to "see what I need to see and learn what I need to learn". Then I just trust and go for the ride! ;)

    Lately, my Dreams have been on Family issues. I left home when I was 14 and never went back. I then underwent conscious Dream healing for years. It consumed many of my Dreams until Dolores Cannon showed me how to get rid of "Life contracts". That fixed it for a long time. But now they are back. I guess I have more work to do! :confused:o_O:(
     
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  5. Bee

    Bee Navigator Staff Member

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    Hi Philippe,

    Yes, as ST said it can depend where along the continuum you are focused. I've found that most of the locally generated experiences contain auto-generated inhabitants. They tend to perform a function, like setting the scene and to make it more believable, rather than being an end point to interact with. But they can also serve as a guide in an unfamiliar environment. There have been times, I noted, where they've been present further out, just stand around grinning at you, which can be funny, or rather disturbing, depending on the situation, lol. Our fellow sentients can and do behave quite differently. The non-lucid tend to have a dull look in their eyes. You can talk to them and ask questions. But the lucid and the wider np inhabitants are fully switched on, as you'd expect. Oh, just something else I've observed: The created inhabitants seem to have little 'weight' to them (if that makes any sense?), you can pick them up without any real resistance. Sentients can be impossible to move, just as strong as you are.

    Nameless,

    That must have been a bit of a shock meeting someone you'd met in the np:eek: Actually I wonder if that has anything to do with the feeling you get, when you meet for the first time, you 'know' them from somewhere?

    :)
     
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  6. Nameless

    Nameless Voyager

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    Shu-Man I'm still working on that intent bit. My intentions are still all over the place and that really gets reflected in my experiences. Last night was a doozy.

    Good observation Bee. Just typing that I had the same thought. I don't know but it is highly likely, at least part of the time.
     
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  7. philippe

    philippe Sojourner

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  8. philippe

    philippe Sojourner

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    . Are those characters we meet in NP just characters playing a out a part we set for them? Hmm, I'm thinking this entire field is far more complex than we know.[/QUOTE]


    Nameless voyager,
    Glad to hear that you can meet dream characters more than once. I wish I could. I myself find it rare and I certainly never have control on it, As for the autonomy of dream figures, I agree this is one of the most complex question that can only be approached by considering if we can, that the definition of independent individual existence in the Astral is likely to be different from what we call a person on our plane. What comes to mind as I am writing this is the obvious fact that in dreams ( or astral) the observer can take various appearances depending on the situation. My own observation of myself is that who I am varies within a specific limited range. I am always a 20-21 st century white male in between 30 and 40 and my occupations and situations are compatible with my physical life memories. I would therefore expect autonomous dream figures to be as real as I am... but to morph themselves (and arrange their life) the same way I do.
     
  9. philippe

    philippe Sojourner

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  10. philippe

    philippe Sojourner

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    Thanks Bee for this most interesting description of real vs created astral subjects. I do not have yet as much experience as you do of astral life . I will look for characters with a vague dull look as you suggest to sort them out. Thanks again.
     
  11. subtle traveler

    subtle traveler Vanguard

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    I understand, Philippe. And, you get to choose your route. Just remember that ...

    Existential Questions = Biological Brain (physical) ... cannot take it with you ...

    Experiences = Conscious Mind (non-physical perspective) ... this goes where you go ...

    Are you familiar with the French author "Akhena"? I have not read her book (about out of body experiences), but I understand that she is very good.
     
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  12. Nameless

    Nameless Voyager

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    I agree with Bee as do so many concerning the non-lucid. One thing to look for is an energy pattern. Many times I have met the same person/being playing a different role. They aren't recognizable as someone you have met previously but if you learn to look at their energy pattern you will know them. Remember whatever you can do they can do too and there is a lot of variation and talent out there.
     
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  13. philippe

    philippe Sojourner

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    ST
    My understanding of the physical brain is that it is only an interface device. When I dream my consciousness is quite at ease with modes of rationality (the word that comes to my mind is paralogical- as on the fringe of what we humans would call sane)...that I would reject in waking consciousness. This I think makes it even more difficult to describe existence (and entities) in the astral.
    I have not read Akhena. I have listened to a Youtube interview of this 67 year old French woman. In French, she has a very clear and methodical way to discuss things in the astral. Hers is likely to be high on my future readings.
     
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  14. novice

    novice Navigator Staff Member

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    Hi Phillipe!
    One thing that I discovered years ago that works for me is meeting someone's eyes. Whether lucid or not, the one way I can always identify a non-aspect character is if they look me in the eyes. I can talk with dream characters but I rarely see a face when I do. It's more like I sense the impression of a face. The same is for a non-dream character/aspect. However, for them the eyes act almost like a lucid jolt. There is a connection when our eyes meet and I can clearly see them as a separate being. The others tend to fade away after that. The next time you are dreaming and want to find a 'real' being, when talking to the characters around you try to look in their eyes. If they don't meet your eyes they are most likely dream aspects.
     
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  15. philippe

    philippe Sojourner

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    Thanks Novice,
    I never thought of that. The eyes indeed are the mirror of the soul and a clear sign that we are facing a real creature with emotions and personality.
    It sounds like a very good hint. I will try that shortly.
     
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  16. Plume

    Plume Trailblazer

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    Hello again Phillipe,
    I also never thought about the eyes connection, I had a experience that reminds me of what Novice is saying. it was last year when trying to go to a party:rolleyes: did not make it... but on the way I saw clearly one being that was so warm and gentle and I ask or I should say that I made a comment that he or her was not a dreamer:) the eyes were so beautiful and I could feel the warm with a smile like saying that I was right. that was maybe the only time I notice this and other time you can see clearly that other have there own agenda. At one time I also was surprise to see that this crowd of not sure what to call them , they look like sort in a daze but they started to move more or maybe I saw it differently when I started to focus then the scene took action.
    I would think the eye contact is a good trick to help because it did leave me with a impression for sure.;)
     
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  17. CFTraveler

    CFTraveler Navigator Staff Member

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    I realize I'm a little late to the party, but Shu-man, can you describe what is the process you learned from Dolores Cannon, or in which one of her books it's described? I read one of her books and liked it a lot.
     
  18. subtle traveler

    subtle traveler Vanguard

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    Welcome back! :)
     
  19. Shu-Man

    Shu-Man Navigator

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    Hi CFT! :)

    Do you mean her talk on breaking "contracts"?
    If you do here is a video with her speaking on it. It works really good too. Once again, it's a trust issue. You need to really believe you and know that it is making a difference. But it is "healing". She talks about it in a number of her "You tube" videos. She sees it as very important. I am not sure which one of her books it is in though. She has so many!


    Her technique was, during a meditation, you see the person you wish to remove the "contract" from. In your hands is a script of paper, known as the contract. You then look at them and say "I release you, I forgive you, I let you go. You are no longer part of my reality. You then rip the contract with them up"?
    I found that I had to do this a number of times, because the initial one didn't really feel like it "took". I did feel a sense of relieve afterwards though.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
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